A few things you should know about minimum wage

I discovered a lot of interesting stuff inside your blog specifically it's discourse

You people are killing me. If you work 40 hrs a week and do not have decent health coverage you can afford and you are able to apply and receive any of the following; food stamp, section 8 or free medical YOU ARE UNDER PAID! Here's what the companies of today like to do, cry about they can't afford anything, so you work for nothing and then turn to the government for assistance, that is called CORPORATE WELFARE. The government is subsidizing the company without the company ever lifting a finger. They have you people so traumatized, people who do have a job are trying to do 5 peoples jobs just to keep their own. This is not a pretty society we live in. The American people did not create this environment. The banks, Wall Street, mortgage lenders, Politian and our government created this mess and you want to argue or even discuss if a job that grossly under pays you already(and we all know minimum wage jobs are the hardest ones)should the wage be cut so the company can hire more workers. How silly is that? So you now have 1 person doing a job for $8 and hour, cut the minimum wage and they can hire 4 people at $2 an hour, tell me how much sense that makes for the employees? The jobs have been outsourced, hell they have made a TV show about it. Who do you think outsourced the job, wasn't me, wasn't you, use logical deductions. People are trying to say now the reason the jobs were outsourced is because we priced ourselves out of business. Get real, only market that remotely happened to is the auto industry. Government saved them, but whatever minimum wage job you work at you can bet the only help you will receive is in the form of food stamps, housing and medical because they want you to have food, shelter and clothing but don't want to pay you enough to purchase it yourself...CORPORATE WELFARE Look at the difference between salary & benefits of Wal-Mart & Costco. Wall Street made fun of Costco because they treated their employees so well. But you can bet in return those employees treat their employer very well. People stop feeling guilty about what you didn't do in the first place and get angry at the people who caused this. Why in the hell do you want to pick on someone who makes $8 an hour and works their butt off for it. Why don't you aim that anger at that fat blood sucking corporate $180K making fat cat with the corner office that spends most of his time thinking of ways to get more out of you and pay you less.

Min Wage is a employers way of say if I could pay you less I would.......That's the bottom line...................

As with most general problems the solution is not transparent or we would all be in control of the national policies.

This is a simple concept however: Income should and will always work to approach, the value contributed to the profit of the business activity. If an automobile worker can generate a value to the sale price of the vehicle of $35/hr than he/she is worth $35/hr if the contribution is only $22/hr than the problem continues assuming the union or minimum wage or.......has demanded a $35/hr rate of pay!

Earning is not a function of education or experience but a relationship of contribution to market value. The hope is that education or experience helps to foresee the market value. Any failure to properly judge that market value lowers the earnings.

This is also where the confused lopsided wages are justifiable. If you are able to perceive that the efforts you spend will generate a value in the market place of $300,00 per year, it does not matter whether you appear to others to "work hare" you have justified your earnings. Consider athletes, rock stars, actors and others, if their presence or contribution generates X millions of sale than they have "earned" their sizable wage. This should be more comprehended at the worker level. I believe that a burger flipper at a highly successful (profitable) hamburger stand should, and probably does, earn a higher wage than the same job at a low profit operation.

We earn what we can generate, and the consumer sets the scale. As long as the consumer will buy the "cheap", the "sub-standard" the "disposable" than the consumer dictates a low wage for the producer. Consider the death of the American garment industry, less durable and marginal sized shirt made in cheap labor countries are what the buyer wants, the American garment worker is no longer worth enough to survive in the local cost of living and must find a different activity where his/her efforts will generate sufficient profit to support the income that allows meeting the cost of living.

Even discussing this is confusing. I hope the contributors will find this post stimulating.

I think even Mississippi should have a cap on minimum wage, but most labor jobs are paid $8.25 p/h on an average, however, some small companies (fewer than 50) pay $7.25. I really think if the government did away with how much people got paid, then employers would not pay enough to keep workers. This is why so many Hispanic illegals get jobs. They take what we won't do, because they are willing to be paid way less for the same jobs American people do. They send their women for foodstamps, they all live together, ride to work together, then they pay cash for their homes. I know several Mexicans that work at chicken plant that all live together in a house they paid cash for. I am talking about really nice houses.

A quick economics 101 study shows raising minimum wage causes more unemployment.
The question: How much unemployment do we want vs. higher wages for the lucky persons working.

The real question is why does one person get paid $30/hr? When two could get paid $15/hr?

What we need, is a MAXIMUM wage. Stop the outsourcers who are killing this country. The GREED of the few, outweights the NEED of the many.

Maybe if the min. wage was increased so people would earn above the poverty level the welfare roles would decrease. If the welfare roles decrease, then taxes could decrease because taxpayers would have much fewer people to support. Just a thought.

The entitlement mentality is alive and well in America. The funny part, is that some who are struggling and defending the working poor here are exhibiting this mentality to a T. There were some posters trying to describe to us how hard it is for a working poor family of 4 or 6 to make ends meet. Sorry, but having children is a CHOICE, not a right or entitlement. Because public assistance is so easily available, it removes all consequences of bad decisions. Babies can be had without giving any consideration to how they will be paid for because someone else will do it. Now let me be clear, if a woman had a stable marriage and family and then one day hubby runs off with a 19 year old leaving the wife to a life of poverty, I have the deepest sympathy and would do what I can to help. But for a woman to have a child she can't afford, or to bring another child into a family that is already living on the edge-this is a choice, and frankly I don't want to hear your sob story about how tough life is. You created the mess, so why should I help you? I bet a lot of people who are struggling with kids would be a lot better off financially if they had less kids or no kids at all. If you can't affford it, you shouldn't have it. Heck I would love a Lear Jet and a Ferrari, but I don't have them because I can't afford them. I am a college educated professional and most of my friends are as well. The overwelming majority of my friends who have kids didn't do so until they were in their 30s and more stable both emotionally and financially. One had her last child at the age of 38 and I hear women in their early 40s are having kids these days too. Choices, people choices, I may seem like I am mean and uncaring, but I really don't see why I should be FORCED (through taxation) to pay for people who made poor choices with their lives. I feel as if I am being punished for working hard and making good choices.

Another poster on this thread mentioned that a minimum wage job is only good if you live with 15 other people. Well, I got some news for you sunshine, home ownership, much like having kids, is not a right or entitlement, it is a privelege. If you can't afford a home, you shouldn't own one. If you can't afford $800 a month rent, why should I subsidize YOU through my taxes or by paying you more than minimum wage for a menial low skill job? Get yourself soom room mates or get the skills and education you need so that you CAN afford that $800 a month rent. Otherwise, shut up about how unfair life is. In many other countries, heck even in this country at one time, it was not uncommon for three generations of a family to live under one roof, and everybody isn't a homeowner.

Toys under the christmas tree-not an entitlement either. If you can't afford the latest gadgets, now is a good time to teach the kids a little lesson about reality. I never went without in my lifetime, but I am not too far away from poverty. My grandfater on my mothers side was an immigrant janitor so my mother grew up in poverty. She told me of years when money was tight and there were no presents under the tree. College? Someone else mentioned how "unfair" it was that college costs $40K a year. Well my mother worked full time second shift in a factory to put herself through COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Kids today look down their noses at community colleges, but my mom turned out okay with hers, and in fact, later in her career she made more money than my dad. There are ways to get a cheap education if you are willing to put in some effort and settle for what you can afford rather than what you want.

Look, life isn't fair and we can't all just do what we want to do and have what we want to have. We make choices, and we are responsible for the consequences of our choices, and sometimes the right choice is the practical one and not the fun one.

Government SAFETY NETS should be in place as a TEMPORARY relief until those who have fallen on hard times can pick themselves up and get going again. But the way our system works only encourages career poverty and removes the consequences of poor life choices.

In your facts you say the Federal poverty level is $22,050. This is the Federal poverty level for a household of four. This could be four adults all working and earning minimum wage, One adult with four minor children, Two adults with two minor children and many other combinations.
Current Federal benefit programs would more than make up for the discrepancy if this was a single parent supporting 3 minor children or two parents with only one wage earner and two minor children. In either of these scenarios Earned Income Tax credit would close the gap significantly. These families would also be eligible for Medicaid for their children along with food stamp assistance. The current Food Stamp allotment for a family of four can be as much as $668 per month. This family would also qualify for community services like low income energy assistance, food banks twice per year, housing assistance, and the list goes on and on. I am personally aware of several households just like this who intentionally have only one wage earner because it would make no sense to have the other parent working.
The reality is that those that fall just beneath the poverty line can live a life style beyond that which my family leads. My wife an I both work and earn approximately $60,000 per year combined gross pay before taxes. We are forced to budget food to no more than $400 per month. We do not qualify for any assistance programs at all. We pay weekly child care and must pay for our employer provided insurance programs to cover ourselves and two children. If either of us was to stay home we would only realize a savings of our child care expense. We both make too much to qualify for any benefits under this scenario as well. We are used to doing what is necessary to make ends meet and live within our means. Realistically we are no better off than the four person household with one working parent earning minimum wage.
This taken into consideration minimum wage in the State of Georgia brings a family with two parents, one working and two minor children to a standard of living equivalent to $38,000 over the minimum wage. The households that are hurting in this country are not those below poverty level, it is those who are over the poverty level but under $80,000 combined income for a household of four. Those whose income combined is below the EITC limits do a little better but not much.
My wife and I make a combined hourly rate of $14.42 per hour. With inflation our life style has suffered. The cost of living increase since the changes in minimum wage have been staggering and we find ourselves living paycheck to paycheck. The Federal Government passes Health Care legislation and my State Employer Health insurance goes up 21% next year.
To really make it sting more I am one of the State workers giving up Furlough reductions in pay while providing benefits to those minimum wage workers' households who are under the poverty level.
If minimum wage is increased all workers above this line would have to realize a similar increase or they will experience an immediate reduction in their standard of living.
This would be an unreasonable expense to legislate on Employers. Minimum wage should be set at an amount which when all other benefits and entitlements are added would put a family of four right at the Federal Poverty level. It is a necessary evil as we know that employers would take advantage if no minimum existed.
More legislation needs to take place concentrating of the citizens who are hurting the most in this country. Tax base needs to be focused on point of sale. This way everyone would have to pay their fair share. Consumption would drive revenues. Every household would have more control over how much of their income was paid in taxes. Individual income taxes do not work. Taxing business does not work. Business simply passes tax on to consumers.
My wife an I both work in jobs that service the public good. What makes another occupation worthy of higher salary? We undervalue occupations that are really much more valuable than given credit in society today. The disparity in incomes from the bottom of the scale to the top has widdened so much that standard of living has suffered and ability to save has deteriorated to the point that we are going to see a much different world in the next twenty years.

THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT ANSWER, PAUL IS RIGHT, IT'S A CATCH 22, YOU'RE DAMED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

I do not think that raising min. wage is the way to get our country back on its feet . I may be wrong but i think that they should tax all imports based on the cost of living from the country it comes from . take that money and pay off the countries debt. then the goods that are on the market would be bought for quallity not price. I feel that all the jobs leaving the country is just good buisness. The people that run buisness in this country have to answer to stock holders and if they can make more profit for there company by sending jobs out of the country so be it, after all the more they make for there company the more they are worth to the company.Think about it . if the cost was the same if it came from over seas as it dose here . Then the one that can make the better product would get the buisness. And would deserve every penny of it. Second I take these idiots that are suing companies for thier mistakes like spilling coffee on them selves and slap them in the head for waisting the courts time and charge the lawyer that brought it to court the cost. Come on people this country can do better than it is . If we all work together and make it happen. Yes I"m a dreamer and know that in this me me me world it will probably never happen.But again I might be wrong I hope so

Minimum wage is a catch 22! If you raise you cut it out of the business's bottom line. If you lower it there is the potential that a person won't be able to sustain themself.

Now the national debt is an issue and will be in the for a long time. Only way to truely get out of the national debt it to have exports higher than imports. The reason why many companies outsources is because the labor rate of other countries. Why pay a person $7.20 when you can pay someone 3 cents. As a business perosn what would you choose? The only way to compete against other countries for manufacturing is to drop minimum wage.

Living the american dream is one thing but the fact is not everyone can live it. Now that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy life and what is has to give but not the dream. If everyone is making 10ok a year then everything is going to more expensive. Why did a coke cost 5 cents 50 years a ago but now cost 1.50. Inflation!

Until everyone accept that to fix the country is for everyone to get a pay cut we're not going to go anywhere.

Anytime the government forces businesses to pay above the prevailing real wage rate, negative effects occur. Different effects occur at different times. Prior to the new minimum wage's effective date, the price, for the products most affected by the increase, will increase to more than the actual amount of the wage increase. The employer has to pay employment taxes on top of the increase in wage. This puts upward pressure on other wage earners as the price of teir products go up. This also places pressure on employers not capable of raising their prices. They will try to increase productiviy through fewer workers. This cycle goes on and on. The working poor has their standard of living lowered. The minimum wage worker sees NO longterm benefit. Minimum Wage is a very flawed concept.

I strongly believe the politicians setting the minimum wage should be working for the minimum wage. There is definitly an imbalance in the distribution of wealth, I feel it stems from this basic flaw in the minimum wage. I surely appreciate a fast food worker that hands me a hot, spit free, burger a whole lot more than a 10 million a movie actress that entertains me for 2 hrs. What the answer is though is beyond me. 10 million, in 2000, basically at poverty level income that's just alot of people struggling, sad really.

Minimum wage pushes the burden of poverty onto low income industries like food service and retail. In addition, teenagers usually can't find jobs because who wants to pay such a high salary (minimum wage) to a part time unskilled employee. Teenagers are intentionally left off the unemployment report to make government officials look better. The majority of industries offer pay higher than minimum wage because the skill level must be sufficient enough to get the desired results. If a person is relying on minimum wage to keep their earnings up they are already in need of government assistance -- what does minimum wage really do for them? I say abolish minimum wage and spread the burden of proverty to all industries -- not just those industries that can utilize low-wage employees.

Oh them evil Employees that need to be paid, they keep them poor CEO's from making $50million a year, they have to slum on just $20million. What is wrong with these people that make $7.10 an hour they should be greatful just to have a job. I don't see where they need food and a place to live, there is room in the city parks

Ed, I agree with you that we need to stop buying so many imported items. However I am a little scared of the way our products are made today. The last made in the USA product that I purchased was a 2009 Jeep Wrangler. From the first day the transmission did not work right, and the engine would stall. I know that a lot of that could be parts from out of the US so that may not be the workers fault. The missing 3 bolts that hold the body to the frame on the other hand are completely the workers fault. Until we start putting pride back into what we make our products will be substandard.

Big buisines continue to hike prices on everything(oil) while the government (taxes)sends all jobs over seas before seeing to the American welfare and job security. The best way to over throw the government is to undermine the economy!
I thought Slavery was abolished!

People are loosing sight of the big picture.
Heath insurance is not a right.
Owning a home is not a right.
Having a car is not a right.
Even having a place to live is not a right.
All of these things are part of the American Dream. Dream being the key word, it may not be your reality. I also understand the desire to have children but if you are having a hard time supporting yourself you cant afford them.
If you are unhappy working at your current job because management makes so much more than you, find another job. You can always try to start a business like the current owners of businesses did at some point. Owners of businesses are risking their capital to make more money. What would their incentive be to keep their company open if they did not make substantially more than the employees working for them. They would just go work for someone ells. Ask yourself this. Would it be ok to you if your boss did not pay you if the company did not make a profit or lost that week? Chances are you would say no because you still put in the time. That is just what happens when a company looses money it comes out of the owner’s pocket. I also feel that all people whether they make $500 a year or $100,000,000,000 should pay the same tax percentage. A sliding scale is just an incentive to work less and stay under the next tax bracket.

Here is a good idea for everyone of us who is feeling bad about their situation (even those who make more than minimum wage). If you live in a warm house this winter, and have a mode of transportation that doesn't involve using the strength in your legs, and are wearing a shirt or pair of pants with something silk-screened or embroidered on the chest or butt, gather up your family and/or friends and pay a visit to volunteer your time or money at a shelter or charitable organizaion to lend a hand to those who have none of those afore-mentioned luxuries. I will, and I'll bet you just might think about the fact that you own a Wii or Playstation and are still complaining about all that you don't have, like my landlord who can't fix my roof because he doesn't have any money, while he drives past in his Audi A8.

general comment - if you wouldnt call your mother, family, coworkers, or boss, a jackass or moron yadayada, dont say it to anybody here, try behaving like adults and buy yourselves a thesaurus

Until people stop buying imports (do without or make it yourself) and start buying local made products then minimum wage will be the norm.

We need people to support the small business or this country will continue its downward slide.

You can only eat so may hamburgers and push so much paper.

Made in the USA used to mean something, yes it was expensive but you only had to buy it once.

If you do not like working for minimum wage.... START YOUR OWN COMPANY and pay yourself whatever you like. Problem solved.

To all the people that say minimum wage in this country is too low and that it can't support a family of four, and that we should raise it until it can...

Using that logic, shouldn't we also then establish a minimum wage for poeple in countries from which we import goods? Those people in foreign countries (i.e., China) make much much less than our minimum wage, how are they supposed to support their family of three on that salary?

To the people that pointed out that the minimum wage doesn't cover the cost of housing... if you are making minimum wage, you do not get your own two bedroom apartment all to yourself. You get to SHARE to make ends meet. You get to have roommates that also contribute to the rent bill. You get to rent out a room in the basement of someone else's house.

If you want luxuries like privacy, you get to study hard and work for it. Yes, you might have to be a nurse instead of an "artiste". That's the choice YOU have to make.

People are looking at this from the wrong direction and asking the wrong questions. People are focusing on the "minimum wage", when in fact an entirely different concept would work much better. Maximum wage.

Here's my propsal:

Completely eliminate the current minimum wage. Instead, replace it with a maximum wage of 10x the lowest paid employee in the company. If CEO's were limited to no more than ten times the minimum wage that was paid by the company, they would have to raise everyone's salary in order to give themselves a raise. It would be in their best interest (and that of the Vice Presdients in the company) to raise everyone's salary and not just their own as in the current system.

Contrast that with the current system where CEO's make (in some cases) 460 times the wages of the lowest paid employee and the increasing spread in the CEO to line worker pay over the last 50 years and you will see why this is needed.

I call this the "equitable distribution of wealth" law. This would not affect shareholders at all, but it would keep managers from voting themselves a pay raise at the expense of the rest of the employees of the company.

Furthermore, I would extend this concept to elected representatives. Let them make no more than twice the median salary of their district. That will focus them more on raising the standard of living of their constituents rather than solely what will benefit their own pockets the most. I dream of a day when senators are paid only as much as the people they represent.

Extend this concept to universities. Let them pay coaches no more than twice the median pay of the professors. It's ludicrous to pay a football coach $4 million per year and a professor $85,000 per year when they both work for the same school. What does that say about the priorities of the school? Seriously? I dream of a day when teachers are paid as much as coaches.

This proposal would work better than the current system because unskilled labor could float up or down to the actual fair market value, and the people higher up the org chart could not pay abusive wages without cutting their own pay, something they are typically loathe to do.

Another comment... .people are saying "you can't support a family of four on minimum wage". Isn't that kind of the point, though? Why would you want to do that? If you are only making minimum wage, you have NO BUSINESS having any kids at all. If you are only making minimum wage, you don't have the resources to support children, and (most likely) do not have the intellect, education, and drive to have genes worth passing on to another generation. So why have kids? Wait until your income goes up before having them, and get an education in a field that is in demand, such as health care.

Children are not a possession to be obtained, they are another human life. What's best for kids is that they are not born into poverty. We could eliminate poverty in one generation if poor people would stop breeding.

And to the smart Ass who says make a nest egg. I did, I bought my home with it. I don't get money back for my kids because my unexpected cancer took away that privilege. being disabled I PAY for Medicare which does NOT cover the 24 Surgeries I have endured in the last six years! So I have to pay an additional $345.00 per month just to afford the nine prescriptions I take daily to function like a somewhat normal 35 yr old woman. Don't lecture me on where did it go? I still owe a fortune in unpaid medical bills. If you want to keep tabs that is $93,000.00 a side.

If minimum wage per hour is higher in this country than the days wage in other countries, you can't blame business for going over seas, and we can't compete.

People working for minimum wage are not lazy. At least they are working and not sucking on the government tit. I think minimum wage should provide at least a marginal living for a single personl by so doing provide an incentive to NOT go on welfare..
One of the problems with companies paying decent wages for low level jobs is the decadent salaries paid to people at the top. Without meaning to sound like a socialist, I would contend that the top person in a company is not any more than 10 times as important to the company as the person holding an entry level position. Their relative wages should reflect that. I am in Winnipeg Canada where the minimum wage is $9.50, cost of living is lower than any of your mid sized US cities. And we still have a HUGE problem with poverty, especially among first nations and children.

Minimum wage is NOT enough to live on. I am permanently disabled by no fault of my own and make a little more than minimum wage. You can Not live on it. Even if we were to move to another state, we could not survive without my husband. Due to this unexpected downfall,he will never finish school. I used to support most of the bills with my 6-figure job. I am now making the "Most" I can on disability because of my former pay, less then 20%. Equal not even close. fortunately we purchased our home prior to my disability or we'd still be paying $2300 in rent a month and going nowhere.

I guess Jackass isn't considered a grammar school name. And I certainly don't need you to help validate my point. Success speaks for itself. I am moving forward and will take any hard working person of character with me, but, they need to be concious of the decision to be made.

I am neither 'rich' nor a braggard, but, I know the recipe for success without having to advocate for earning minimum wage for myself. I'll say it again...work your ass off and never accept anything less than you think you deserve.

Roger, Roger. Thanks for being pontificating moron like the rest of your ilk. That's exactly what PEOPLE LIKE ME expect from people like you. To answer your question as to my neighbors risking as much or working as hard as I have to get where I am, I stand firm on my belief...NO WAY the vast majority of them put all there wordly possessions on the line nor worked 6 am til midnight, seven days a week to ensure against failure and the loss of everthing I had put into my business, because, after all, it is MY business. I am sorry the rest of you may just consider yourselves workers for 'THE MAN' instead of an integral part of a growing opportunity like the one selflessly offered to the nitwit who quit on me because he wanted more time to skateboard.

The sooner you realize that I am not the problem, and complacency and selfishness are, the better we will all be. As long as I have opportunities to grow my business locations, I will hire atleast 20 brand new workers. What have you done to help?

Here's a good proposal for all to flame me over.

1. Tax all fairly across the board. No deductions that are not earned.
2.Leave Min. Wage alone and give earned deductions for employers by the percentage that lowest paid employees are paid above Min Wage.
3. As for other benefits they afford to their employees such as insurance, base earned deduction on the percentage the employer contributes to the cost beginning at 80% of the cost.
4. Retirement benefits can earn deductions for employers who actually match the employees contribution bases on the percentages that they match.
5. Largest earned deductions will come to Employers within a community who participate in reducing unemployment to a level of 3% or less in all areas where they have facilities, Brick and mortar or virtual.
6. Employer must participate in at least 2 of the above programs or their earned deductions will be lost( 0%).
7. Those who elect not to participate must move offshore and as a result cannot participate in business except for the country in which they hire employees. NO exceptions! Other countries hate America and American Employers for similar reasons as this so it would be asy to enforce.

The simple foundation of these rules of business taxation are to be a priviledge of those corporation who benefit American workers and keep America employed and promote the welfare of the communities in which they do business. It needs a bit of work but stuff like this could really work for everyone. Even handicapped and disabled workers. It promotes above all the concept of morality, humanity and ethical soundness.

This could end the arguments of Socalized medicine, welfare, immgration, and racism.